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Forum - How Low Can We Go.

How Low Can We Go.

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Original Blog Post:

Yesterday we had the Futurity run and won in Melbourne. This has been a race won by some of our greatest horses. Names such as Phar Lap, Bernborough, Manikato, Schillaci and Testa Rossa adorn the winner's list.

One thing I have learned is that 1400 metre races are a specialist's distance. It is not for horses that can't sprint and not for horses that can't run a mile but for horses that are usually pretty good.

With that in mind I looked at Brave Smash yesterday and after noting that he had never won at the distance and never won in the class, being 7/2 favourite was not his right price and therefore laid him.

Now this bloke came to Australia from Japan as a five year old and for all those who love ratings, was rated at about 90. He was beaten by over 40 lengths in the derby in Japan and certainly was no world beater. Before yesterday, he had won three races in nineteen starts, his best being a Listed Race against El Divino and Revolving Door.

Anyway, leaving that to one side, here he was in a Group One WFA in Australia against our fabulous horses. What chance you might ask?

It's history now that he managed to win in a canter from another Japanese horse. I think there are only three conclusions to draw from this race:

1. Overseas horses of limited ability coming to Australia will within one year, magically become Group One horses

2. Australian trainers are so exceptional that a mediocre overseas born horse will become a Group One winner within one year.

3.Our Group One horses are so hopeless that a mediocre overseas horse can come here, acclimatize and then clean up.

We have over 72 Group One races in Australia. Japan has about 20. Who are we kidding.

All of our Group races should be monitored. If the class for that particular race is so low then the race should not be allowed to carry a group rating for that particular year. The prize money should also be reduced to about listed level at best for that year as well.

All we are achieving at present is maintaining breeding stock with a list of group achievements that are about as meaningless as all the medals one sees on some third world dictator.

I think we have some worthy horses in our sprinting divisions, especially those two Snowden horses. I also think we may have a couple of good three year olds that hopefully keep racing. The weight for age horses above and including 1400 metres are woeful.

I think this year's Futurity rates right down there with last year's Stradbroke, Epsom, Turnbull but not as low as that disgraceful Cox Plate.

If I am wrong, tell me the best WFA horses in Australia besides the obvious one.

 
Author: gladys
Subject: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 25/2/2018 8:31:17 AM
 
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Author: Rex
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 22/3/2018 9:23:47 PM

Blog Reply:

Bop Bag

the closest you have come to quantifying anything is to state that Vo Rogue would suck the sprint out of her.

The rest of your lengthy posting is you basically saying "it is because I think it is"

Just admit, you're trolling and you don't have the smarts to quantify your opinion.

Only a novice would start to compare a former champion's performance against a current champion who doesn't go over the distance made reference to. Might as well compare Mo Farah to Usain Bolt!

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 22/3/2018 9:21:48 AM

Blog Reply:

Certainly "Banjo" Rex. Happy to oblige. As I will be departing for London soon I will also educate you regarding that other over rated horse, Black Caviar.

As a youngster I was fortunate to be taken to the races and saw Vain win the Slipper. That was in 1968 and I have never seen a better two year old since. Luskin Star would come the closest and both would have absolutely thrashed Black Caviar in their respective two and three year old years.

In races between 1000 metres and 1600 metres, Manikato would have towelled Black Caviar and Winx. He took on the best up and comers over five years and beat them. Three year olds like Rancher, Oenjay Star and Galleon were hammered. Winx or Black Caviar would not get past him, he would run them into the ground.

In races between 1400 and 2000 metres, Vo Rogue would annihilate Winx. She would not get those soft tempos behind aged stayers and no hopers in pretend Group Ones. Look what he could do. He sucked the sprints out of Better Loosen Up, Our Poetic Prince, Campaign King and Super Impose. They had nothing left after he worked them over and they were quality horses. Winx would be off the bit with her lungs burning at the 800 and would not get near him. If it was a sit and sprint, she would not live with Kingston Town.

If connections decided to take her over a distance of more than 2000 metres then Might and Power would destroy her. The day he won the Caulfield Cup by seven lengths, I doubt if there was a horse in the World that would have beaten him.

I have not even mentioned Surround or Dulcify, both would towel her.

As I said, she is special as she is all we have. She is the best in Australia as we have no others. She is not the best horse we have ever had, neither her nor Black Caviar would rate in the first ten.

Enjoy her but keep your gushing and tears for the dunderheads on this forum that have never seen what a proper champion is. Black Caviar and Winx are so good because the opposition is just so bad.

 
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Author: Rex
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 21/3/2018 8:34:26 PM

Blog Reply:

Bop Bag

interesting that you sat from 20 years ago- you're not even going back to the likes of Kingston Town and Dulcify etc.

Im assuming you mean horses from the 90s would beat Winx? If they didn't she would still be very special. So who from 20 years ago would beat Winx, how and why?


 
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Author: maccamax
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 21/3/2018 1:48:26 PM

Blog Reply:

"Obsessed" is a harsh description.

Times are purely one of many variables and the sectional capabilities of the various gallopers does measure their class when they need to produce..

I was always wrapped in Northerly for his versatility with doing "what he had to". Winx has been much the same in these unsuitable shorter races she has faced quite a few times. I'm sure we all appreciate the times of year when the best of the best have to show what their made of.

Some top events face us in the coming weeks. It appears the weather isn't gong to help many either.

Hope Y'all back a winner. (Hopefully Humidor again aye, lololol).

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 21/3/2018 1:31:43 PM

Blog Reply:

If it makes you feel better Gary, compared to the duds we have racing, Winx is something special.

If we had the calibre of horses we had twenty years or more ago she would not be something special at all.

 
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Author: Gary Still
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 2:14:42 PM

Blog Reply:

Gladys,

In relation to Astern you said;

"It did have a very good sprint off a slow tempo"

Doesn't Winx?

"I thought it had promise."

Doesn't Winx?

"I thought he (Astern) was something special."

Isn't Winx?

If both Winx and Astern are racing against the same Aussie "duds", on what basis do you declare that Astern, unlike Winx, is "something special?"



 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 1:51:13 PM

Blog Reply:

There is no gushing or adulation Gary. I agree it didn't beat much because we haven't had much for about twenty years.

It did have a very good sprint off a slow tempo and I thought it had promise. After all, one doesn't need to be a world beater against the opposition that is Australian racing at present. All you need is half the field made up of stablemates who are aged handicappers who you can rely upon to set a slow working gallop to finish over the top of.

 
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Author: Gary Still
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 12:05:51 PM

Blog Reply:

Gladys,

I don't see why the media was so obsessed with Astern when it was racing. It had only beaten "duds". What would Kingston Town have done to Astern as a 3yo?

It raced in its comfort zone of 1400m or less, carried luxury weights and was instructed to seek cover whenever possible.

This gushing and adulation for Astern is really too much. It didn't beat anything worthwhile and the races it won were an embarrassment.

Cheers

PS - I have to concede that it had a better strike rate than Winx at the barrier trials.



 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 11:28:52 AM

Blog Reply:

Gary, I see Winx as the best horse we have in Australia at present. She is probably the best horse we have had in the last twenty years. Unfortunately, I don't know how good she really is as she has never beaten anything worthwhile.

I don't feel the need to burst into tears or gush about being the best horse ever or best in the world as she is not.

Now, quid pro quo!

 
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Author: Gary Still
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 11:20:22 AM

Blog Reply:

What did you see in Astern that you DON'T see in Winx?

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 10:58:32 AM

Blog Reply:

Gary, Quid pro quo!

 
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Author: Gary Still
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 10:30:35 AM

Blog Reply:

Gladys,

Why do you think Astern was "special"?

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 20/3/2018 9:24:17 AM

Blog Reply:

Yes Macca, I think he is a pretty good horse. For those that are obsessed with race times, he also broke the course record when he came second in that embarrassment of a Cox Plate.

As for the three year old, I don't know. At this time of the year good three year olds should be dominant and they just aren't, even with Winx out of the equation.

I was disappointed when Astern went off to stud. I thought he was something special.

 
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Author: maccamax
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 19/3/2018 2:50:24 PM

Blog Reply:

Can we do it Gladys? Australia's own Refugee, Humidor, did it all on Saturday against the sectionals in a last to first erratic exhibition to win nicely.

Can he rise to his outstanding Cox Plate Ratings in the Doncaster and shake up the lightweight 3YO Kementari?

On his best behaviour he is a superstar really, having 7 wins 5 placings & 1 unp run from 13, 1600m to 2040m.

Redkirk Warrior (God bless him) overcame the so called 3YO's weight advantage and I'm hopeful Humidor can show his class too.

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 18/3/2018 3:24:46 PM

Blog Reply:

No Rex, I am sure you didn't always wear a suit.

I can think of a couple of outfits that you most likely wore.

 
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Author: Rex
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 17/3/2018 6:13:41 PM

Blog Reply:

Bop Bag

I didn't always wear a suit champ.

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 17/3/2018 4:54:27 PM

Blog Reply:

Was that movie, "The Man from Snowy River" based on your life, L. Rex?

 
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Author: Rex
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 17/3/2018 12:10:23 PM

Blog Reply:

Bob Bag,

I remember Manikato very well. Brilliant horse, couldn't agree more that he was special.

But WTF has that got to do with Black Caviar? Every horse is different. You are aware they had problems with her from a young age? But you'd start her anyway? Glad youre not my trainer champ, she wouldn't have seen a racetrack if you had her.

I don't know why you continue to challenge me. As for who knows what about training a horse- I don't know, you tell me.

How many horses have you ridden? How many horses have you broken in? How many have you drenched, shod, pregnancy tested, shot (yeah as in a bullet), needled, drenched, castrated stitched, sliced open from pelvis to chest, bled and fed? How many rodeos you ridden at? How many hours have you spent droving? Just how many hours have you spent working with racehorses and horses in general?

My guess in zero. We both know your expertise is being a lying welching and wannabe internet bullying (pffft) troll.

I don't know champ, but from the stupid things you say re barrier trials, horses can't be labelled a champion unless they win a G1 as a 2yo etc, I get he feeling that Ive probably got you covered in this area. But if you think Im wrong- lets us all know your back ground.





 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 17/3/2018 8:35:46 AM

Blog Reply:

Yes L. Rex. As well as being the biggest know it all about everything racing, you are now the guru on horse training.

Whilst you are blathering away, would you care to have a look at Manikato's record. In case you don't know, he was probably one of the largest and heaviest sprinters we have ever had.

As a two year year old he won the Blue Diamond and Slipper, as a three year old set a weight carrying record to win the Rothmans (Doomben 10,000), won the Ryder, Orr and was run down in the shadows of the post by Dulcify in the Australian Cup just to mention a few.

I bet the connections and the Hoysteds wish you were around then to advise them on horse welfare and training techniques when he was annihilating the opposition.

 
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Author: Rex
Subject: Re: How Low Can We Go.

Time: 16/3/2018 11:40:51 AM

Blog Reply:

Theres been plenty of champions not win G1's as 2yo clown.

Do you understand why Black Caviar was taken along slowly at the start of her career? You should by now, you've been told.

Have you worked out why Winx had an extra barrier trial this prep yet?

Have you worked out who was the best 2400m horse Enable beat in the Arc last year?

Bop Bag- anyone with half a brain could troll better than you. You're a laughing stock.

.........................
"Hi WCF. I love the banter on the forum. I trust you don't take it personally, just a bit of fun" "Anyhow, back to the stirring. Hope you back a few winners and keep up the cracking slings at me. Regards Gladys"
...........................

 
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